Curse

Spoony · Apr 07, 2006, 11:17 AM // 11:17

Well, they say the first sentence is always the hardest. Ok i got it behind me. Well the thing is, i was interested in the thread by Sixty.
Linky - http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d.php?t=118344

With not commenting no further, as just saying that what Sixty says is right, and i think it should be changed. My suggestion is to change 10% sundering mod into at LEAST 15% one. Hope u do agree with me

stickyballs · Apr 07, 2006, 01:11 PM // 13:11

I don't know if they should make it better as then people would complain that maybe other mods might need a boost. But yes, Sundering SUCKS and it wouldn't hurt it to be a little better...

Spoony · Apr 07, 2006, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Glad people know what i mean. Everyone else wanna sign in

?

Plague · Apr 07, 2006, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Personally, I think 30% is going overboard.

Both sundering and Axe Mastery do need a boost, though.

I'd say, personally, make Sundering's maximum be (Chance: 12%) and have Axe Mastery's be (Chance: 16%).

Sundering is basically on all the time, as is Axe Mastery, but it's slightly more beneficial (at some att levels at least) to be getting that extra few % points of armor penetration rather than just raising your axe's possible damage a point or two.

Axe Mastery, you would think, would be more beneficial as a random chance boost for skills, like most other wands or staffs or what have you. But, Warriors don't use their skills as much as a caster, obviously, so having a measely 10% chance for that skill to gain any benefit isn't cutting it, IMO.

Spoony · Apr 07, 2006, 03:34 PM // 15:34

Yeah , well Id say max both for axe mastery and sundering - 15%. That should do the trick *edits post from 30% to 15* , sry about that but i felt like it was kind of an absurd that sundering is so weak, while other upgrades (ex. vampiric , zealous) take the lead.

Vilaptca · Apr 07, 2006, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plague

I'd say, personally, make Sundering's maximum be (Chance: 12%) and have Axe Mastery's be (Chance: 16%).

Sundering is basically on all the time, as is Axe Mastery, but it's slightly more beneficial (at some att levels at least) to be getting that extra few % points of armor penetration rather than just raising your axe's possible damage a point or two.

Axe Mastery, you would think, would be more beneficial as a random chance boost for skills, like most other wands or staffs or what have you. But, Warriors don't use their skills as much as a caster, obviously, so having a measely 10% chance for that skill to gain any benefit isn't cutting it, IMO.

Axe Mastery's chance already goes up to 20% just like every other attribute raising mod on weapons.

Raxxman · Apr 07, 2006, 04:56 PM // 16:56

If sundering was permi 10% AP it still wouldn't be over powered

When fighting a caster you'd be effectively taking 6 armour off them, ranger 7 and warriors 10-12 depending on sheild.

Firey/icy/shocking/ebon hilts still offer better armour pen vs warriors (-20 armour as almost every warrior uses glads), while life stealing offers a flat 3 point life steal per hit.

Sidra · Apr 07, 2006, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Vampiric can go up to 5... and sundering only does 10% more armor penetration if you hit them, and even then, 1/10 tries will get you sundering, idealy. Your post doesn't make much sense to me, Raxx.

btw, /signed. Sundering to me is one of the coolest mods... just needs to be un-screwed a bit, hehe.

Mandy Memory · Apr 07, 2006, 08:34 PM // 20:34

A constant 10% penetraition would not be overpowering as shown by the hornbow. (I still wouldn't use it)

Ensign · Apr 07, 2006, 08:35 PM // 20:35

20/20 Sundering and 20% Furious would be attractive.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Apr 07, 2006, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raxxman

If sundering was permi 10% AP it still wouldn't be over powered

When fighting a caster you'd be effectively taking 6 armour off them, ranger 7 and warriors 10-12 depending on sheild.

Firey/icy/shocking/ebon hilts still offer better armour pen vs warriors (-20 armour as almost every warrior uses glads), while life stealing offers a flat 3 point life steal per hit.

Why would 10% AP take off 6 AR off a caster and then 10-12 AR off a warrior?!
10% AP would take off 10 AR just as advertised no matter what the armor is.

But the damage done will be different. 10% AP on a caster with 60 AR will do 118.9% more damage. That's way too good.

EDIT: Also, a constant 10% AP will make you even better than a 10 strength warrior since not only will you do 10% AP on attack skills but on your regular attacks as well. Definately would be overpowered if it was a constant 10 AP.

Rhuobhe · Apr 07, 2006, 08:54 PM // 20:54

I would like to see sundering's max % increased to a 20% chance or 15/20% AP

I would also like to see Furious increased to 20%

If this is done, all current mods should double (ie a 10% furious should turn into a 20% at the time of an update) just to avoid a market upset.

LifeInfusion · Apr 07, 2006, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

20/20 Sundering and 20% Furious would be attractive.

I'd take furious over sundering ANY day of the week ... because it is more flexible.
================================================== ======================

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mandy Memory

A constant 10% penetraition would not be overpowering as shown by the hornbow. (I still wouldn't use it)

10% Armor penetration sucks EVEN if it is 15 or 20% chance. That is only one in five hits. Vampiric is a consistent 5 damage aginst any armor, even those high armor bosses that seem to take 1's and 3's form every attack you do even with strength at 10 or 12.

To see how much armor penetration counts, you just have to use 10 strength. 10% armor penetration is overated. The only reason to use 10 strength instead of 8 or 9 is to boost skills as Endure pain, Battle rage, dolyak signet, and other PvE useful skills. For PvP, it is just for the consistent added damage, because tactics doesnt cut it for PvP as riposte and defense stances aren't the most useful in pvP.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Apr 07, 2006, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

Vampiric is a consistent 5 damage aginst any armor, even those high armor bosses that seem to take 1's and 3's form every attack you do even with strength at 10 or 12.

You forget that strength doesnt apply to regular attacks, so the 1's and 3's arent the result of armor penetration factored in.

But I totally agree that Vampiric is much better than a sundering mod...even if it was 20% chance.

Mandy Memory · Apr 07, 2006, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

Why would 10% AP take off 6 AR off a caster and then 10-12 AR off a warrior?!
10% AP would take off 10 AR just as advertised no matter what the armor is.

But the damage done will be different. 10% AP on a caster with 60 AR will do 118.9% more damage. That's way too good.

EDIT: Also, a constant 10% AP will make you even better than a 10 strength warrior since not only will you do 10% AP on attack skills but on your regular attacks as well. Definately would be overpowered if it was a constant 10 AP.

No it wouldnt, it would take off 10% as advertised. 10% of 60 is 6. 10% of 100 is 10.
Also hornbows alraedy have a constant 10%AP and they are not overpowered.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

20/20 Sundering and 20% Furious would be attractive.

/signed

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

10% Armor penetration sucks EVEN if it is 15 or 20% chance. That is only one in five hits. Vampiric is a consistent 5 damage aginst any armor, even those high armor bosses that seem to take 1's and 3's form every attack you do even with strength at 10 or 12.

Thats because strength only applies to the natural damage part of your attack skills[because the +dmg part ignores armor]. All those normal attacks gain no benifit from strength.

I would agree with either 10%(50-100% chance) or 20/20. While we are at it
fix furious, of <attribute>, and zealous[on hammers].

Then again, perhaps multiple sunderings would be nice.
5/80
10/40
20/20
40/10
80/5
[All average out to 4%AP]
This way you wouldnt sound stupid by saying buying 10/10 sundering mod (Since all of the sundering mods are 10/x)

Spoony · Apr 07, 2006, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Ok guys, enough of this debate:P. Ill just do a new thread, and ill welcome "/signed" in that

, this ones starting to be much of a debate of what percent would be best, and what upgardes suck and which dont.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Apr 07, 2006, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mandy Memory

No it wouldnt, it would take off 10% as advertised. 10% of 60 is 6. 10% of 100 is 10.
Also hornbows alraedy have a constant 10%AP and they are not overpowered.

Hmm you're right about the armor penetration and I was wrong.

But I still think a constant 10% AP would be overpowered. As I said before it would be like having 10 strength except even better since it affects regular attacks too.

Align · Apr 07, 2006, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Vamp deals 3(5) damage and heals you for the same amount, with 1 degen, whereas a constant sundering would give you a 2-3 damage boost, end of story. Doesn't sound very overpowered...

Eet GnomeSmasher · Apr 07, 2006, 11:07 PM // 23:07

As long as sundering doesnt affect attack skills (does it?) then I'll agree.

Raxxman · Apr 08, 2006, 10:00 AM // 10:00

Even if it did, increased dammage for attack skills it is not significant in contrast to other mods. Vampiric does a flat dammage (max 3 for swords and axes, 5 for hammers and bows) which is lifesteal and unavoidable.

Elemental is a bit more varied as certain armours protect vs elements better, but generally elemental gives a huge 20 armour point penetration vs warrior armours.

10% sundering at all times would give you a minor amount of bonus dammage vs all types, what you'd have would be a weapon that is a little bit more effective than the norm on all targets, but inferior at specific times to other mods.

The way I'd like sundering to work is instead of a % chance for sundering you have a % value of sundering, going up to 10%.

Personally I'd still not use sundering over my fav mod, zealous, as the energy management from the mod is way too useful for me.